What about the Bible?

[Britwhit]

SMALL DISCLAIMER: I am making broad generalizations that hopefully will help out the guilty parties as it has helped me! If this doesn't apply to you GREAT but please share your thoughts.

I'm writing because there is an issue that I think needs to be addressed and I want to hear what other people think about what I have to say. Do you agree/disagree?

Just to give you a little background about myself first: I was raised in an uneffective uninspired Christian Science family. For a while growing up I went about the motions of a typical christian scientist including reading the S&H and highlighting all over the place like I've seen others do, but it never meant ANYTHING! I never read any part of the Bible beyond what was written in the weekly Bible lesson, and it seemed clear to me that the Bible quotes were chosen to compliment the words from the S&H, not the other way around. I was so confused about why I disliked CS so much. I love(d) the theology of Love that is taught, but I hated something and didn't know until quite resently what it was. I realized really what Key to the scriptures meant. It meant that one seeker of truth was interpreting the Truths taken from The Bible. The book may have been divinely authorized, but it would have been SQUAT without the Bible. So why are Christian Scientists ALWAYS quoting the S&H and nothing else?
You, as a Christian Scientist, should honestly ask yourself "do I really know the Bible" "do I know it better than the Science and Health like I should?" Just in case you are not fully honest with yourself test yourself. Write down all the quotes that you have committed to memory from the S&H. Now do the same for the Bible. Which one has more? Does that tell you anything?
In the Bible we are told not to idolize any graven images. Is not our sole dependence on S&H a graven image? A definition of graven in the dictionary is something that is "cut into a desired shape". Are we not cutting the Bible into a desired shape by exclusivly reading Bible quotes from it that are either mentioned in the S&H or relate to the topics MBE raises?
I know I'm not the only person out there who has had to deal with this. I'm curious to know what other people think. Am I wrong in hoping for Christian Scientists to gain a stronger relationship with the Bible? Have you notice this yourself? What should the church do in response to this (if anything)? The time for thinkers has come! Go out, read the Bible, cherish it, write a sequal to the S&H. MBE was the same as you and me. The only difference is SHE actually read the Bible!
With love,
Brittany

[Ame Schneider]

Interesting questions. You bring up a valid point

I don't know of many CSers who only read Science and Health without the Bible. But we could all understand the Bible a little more.

I liked your challenge for us to compare how many verses we have memorized in the Bible to the sentences we have memorized in the Science and Health. I would have to say that I do have more quotes on the MBE side - but you know - the Bible side isn't puny or anything. I mean from the Old Testament through to the New Testament there are so many inspired ideas that I am familiar with.

It takes discipline to read through a book of the Bible like Psalms or Acts. I think society today has so many distractions that it is easy not to buckle down and study this stuff.

But Mary Baker Eddy was clear about how important it is to study, ponder, reflect, and digest the inspired Word of the Bible. It is in our First Tennant!

Maybe we could all just take it upon ourselves right now to know that nothing can distract us from hearing God's message - through the study of our pastor - collectively: the Bible and the Science and Health.

And what about the Bible? I have been asked several times lately about how valid the Bible is since it has been translated so many times. And - oh - isn't it just some nice stories that don't relate to me anymore? I just keep going back to the idea that we take the "inspired Word of the Bible as our sufficient guide to eternal Life."

And the second coming of Christ - that we are comforted by each moment of each day will speak to us through the Bible and the Science and Health - and in our daily interactions with the rest of His creation!

I don't think we should beat ourselves up too much - but it is nice to be reminded every now and then that we have a commitment to "unlocking the power of the Bible" (which is a slogan from the CS Publishing Society/TMC used recently to promote the new edition of our pastor)...

[AVERT303]

Way to be courageous and ask some tough questions, Brittany. You raise an important one, on knowing the Bible. It's way important — our first tenant reads "we take the inspired word of the Bible as a our sufficient guide to eternal life."

On the other hand, the Bible and Science and Health could feel useless if one is not quite sure what to do with them.What I mean is, are we supposed to just read them and read them, until the cows come home? No. We take the ideas, the inspired, lovely wonderful, loving, ideas and we use them. (and by the way, these ideas that speak, they may be quotes, but I know it's really the Christ speaking, healing, regenerating our thought…) We can take these ideas and we can pray with them — we can trust God to show us how to understand them even more. We can heal with them. We love, love, love, love, love, with every idea and step that God shows us.

Speaking of ideas God gives us...i was once working through a tough thing, and I asked God to give me some kind of answer. He said, "LISTEN!" Right then I was listening to Bjork's song "All is full of love" and I just got it...I had a healing right there. So it proved to me, God's word, the Christ, comes to us in the way we need to hear it, even through Bjork.

I am the first to admit that loving is not actually the easiest thing to do. Whether its when I have made a mistake, or someone else has. Where do I begin? Sometimes its going to Science and Health, sometimes its the Bible. But all the time, I know prayer is where i can go all the time 'cause God is right here, there, and everywhere. One way I like to think of it, since God is Mind, God wrote the Bible and Science and Health — both books worship God and prove the goodness of man like no other books have to date on this planet. Both books show us, undoubtedly, that we are at one with divine Love.

Mrs Eddy didn't just know the Bible. She practiced every ounce of understanding she gleaned from the Bible. To really understand the Bible or S&H we need to take the ideas and practice them, learn to love them, and mostly, we need to learn to love God, and every one of Her ideas, every day. After all, this is what Jesus did and that is why Mrs Eddy wrote about it, to elucidate the understanding she gained about Jesus' works through her own practice to share it with others, so that we could all be healers, just like Jesus.

So my feeling is if anyone of us picks up either book, and we see an idea that makes us feel good, we can take that wonderful feeling to the next level...God will show us how to put it into practice it or share it. And we'll indeed see we are (!!) proving this Science every moment of every day.

[bronwen]

Like you mentioned Brittany, I realized about a year ago that I was a lot less familiar with the Bible than I wanted to be. I mean I knew more than the Lesson excerpts but less than I wanted. I think the wheels started turning even further when a woman at church mentioned a healing she had had where it seemed like she could never get into the Bible, never read it through. I don't remember her specific ideas but I know she was able to break through that resistance and now has read it through several times. About that same time a friend introduced me to the one year Bible (available in various translations) that lays out daily readings for you from both Old and New Testament and Psalms and Proverbs. I'm now almost done reading it through in the New International Version and its been a fantastic experience. I feel like my understanding of Christian Science is on a much more solid footing now that I really know what all is in the Bible. And I feel much more inclined to sit down and read whole sections at a time and enjoy that study.
I think you are asking some good questions in bringing this up, and I agree that sometimes it does seem like we as Christian Scientists only care about the Bible as it complements Science and Health. So my feeling is lets make it our job to see that we do something about changing that, and really finding out what the other half of our Pastor has to say!

[Audrey]

Hey Brit and everyone:
I definitely don't know the Bible as well as I'd like to. The problem for me is that sometimes it takes a lot of work to understand the KJV! I didn't want to abandon that version since it's the one we use in church, but there are times I pick it up to read and one word throws me off from understanding an entire passage. I was grateful to hear about the site www.biblegateway.com (someone at the summit mentioned it), where you can look up different translations of any verse. I like to compare the KJV to the more "plain English" versions. It helps me understand the way words are used in the KJV and relate them better to passages in S&H. For example, in The Message, Psalm 91:10 is translated as "Evil can't get close to you, harm can't get through the door." I just now read this and it reminded me of what sunday school teachers have always told me, to "stand porter at the door of thought." (FYI, I had to look that up on spirituality.com to get the right wording, hee hee). Realizing the connection between these passages is one of those "Ohhhh, I get it, cool!" moments that deepens my understanding.
Knowing the Bible well (which is important anyway, of course) is really the only way to get the most out of S&H. Sometimes the lesson illustrates this, by quoting Mrs. Eddy working with a specific passage; but as you'll notice, she doesn't always quote (like with quotation marks) the Bible. I think this is because a large part of the audience she was writing to was so familiar with the Bible, that if she paraphrased it, they would recognize the source. We shouldn't let ourselves miss out on that!

[Fossil]

Guess who Fossil is, guys...not too clever a disguise, I guess.
Well, believe it or not, after studying the Bible for over forty years I don't know the Bible as well as I'd like to, either! So don't feel too bad. There's a lot going on there.
I agree with what was said about really using what you know about the Bible, whether it is a little or whether it is a lot. The more you use it, the more you will gain.
Mrs. Eddy wanted Christian Scientists to know the Scriptures, not so much academically as spiritually and morally. That happens only as we read, ponder, and use what we find in them. And yes, there are contradictions at times--the ancient writers were striving to understand God, too. That serves us well because it makes us think for ourselves and turn directly to the Source, God.
Remember that the Bible isn't a collection of "pat answers," but an account of how people went in search of God...and found Him. Each of us has to take that journey. The Bible gives us encouragement that the way is well marked and the journey is possible.
I remember, one time when I was in grad school, I was freaking out over an exam. I turned to the Book of Psalms, and what I kept noticing was the reference to Israel and how God cared for and protected it. Suddenly I felt--I'm part of that, I'm the beneficiary of all that inspiration and effort, all those challenges and obstacles met and overcome. I can't describe the peace that came over me. It made a huge difference. And it convinced me my studies in biblical history were taking me in a good direction.
I'd love to hear Bible discoveries some of you have made.

[CanyTech]

Hey, Brittany, I know that song you've been singing, because I've been singing other verses of the same song myself. I remember how much more confident I became in CS when I finally came to understand, during my senior year in college, that all those nifty ideas I'd been learning about in Sunday School actually came out of the Bible and weren't brand new at all. Christian Science helps us understand the Bible, and I agree 100% with you that we should be totally familiar with the source book itself.

I actually logged onto this site because I was trying to find a Sunday School forum I heard about because I have some ideas about Bible-teaching resources we should be building for ourselves. (I'll post that in the appropriate forum once I find it.)

My own Bible study includes one-year Bible reading programs (I'd be happy to post the schedule on this site too if I could figure out where) and occasional Bible study groups with friends. Right now I'm in the process of rounding up a handful of thoughtful friends with Skype to study Jesus' parables together. I've found a good foundation of prepared questions to kick around and I'm thinking that my friends and I can discuss a parable or two each week. The first half of the week we'd figure out if we have additional questions to pose to each other, and pass them around by e-mail. Then we'd have a little study session on a Skype conference call where we'd discuss our answers to the questions we'd posed for ourselves.

I think the parables are really cool. I think Jesus' whole ministry was just amazing. And I even get a huge charge out of most of those characters in the old testament. Samuel is my favorite. He really got things done!

I don't know when to stop. Let me just say I'm really glad you brought up this question because the more we know about God the more the Bible makes sense, and the more the Bible makes sense the more we know about God. It builds a bomb-proof foundation for all the good stuff we're eager to go out and do. In fact, the Bible is our guidebook to what we should be out in the world doing. You can't have one without the other.

Way to go, Brittany. I hope lots of people take your message to heart.

-Steve

[testdrive]

All good points! As Mrs. Eddy says, "The time for thinkers has come." And, WOW, you guys all seem to be deep thinkers. I am reading the Bible (King James version) straight through. So far I'm up to Ezekiel. I also like to go to crosswalk.com and see how some verses are translated in different versions. AND :) , after I'm done I have a copy of The Message by Eugene Peterson to read.

I think it's really up to each one of us individually to learn to love the Bible and make a connection through it to God. I have found when I'm in a bind and need God's help it's most often a Bible verse that pops into thought. Also, I have noticed that since I started reading the Bible more closely, I have found many more instances of where Science and Health refers to the Bible and cooroborates what the Bible is saying. But, I have lots of questions too. So, I'll have to take those to God. I think Mrs. Eddy valued the Bible deeply and never intended for people to read Science and Health exclusively or even predominently over it.

I do think that people sometimes do go through the motions of reading the bible lesson and attending church and don't think about it much. I guess that actually goes for any denomination. But if we want to get to know God, we do have to put in the effort. But I know that God leads us and loves us and provides a good path.

[Cara Lange]

Well first of all, as your disclaimer said, we want to be careful about generalities. No, not many people have read the Bible cover to cover. Perhaps more people have read through Science and Health. But it is important to note that Science and Health is a lot shorter than the Bible. Just because people may seem to know the Science and Health better that way might simply be that the amount of text is significantly shorter.

With that said, it is important to study the Bible. The Bible presents the word of God, the teachings of Jesus and gives a fresh look every time. What is important to note is the way the Bible should be read.

This is very, very, very, important for both the study of the Bible and S&H. You haven't gotten the most out of it if you mememorise verses. That shouldn't be a factor in whether you study the Bible well enough or the S&H. Knowing the Bible even takes study and understanding!

Both the Bible and the S&H are important in Christian Science. I sense a bit of belittling this work. Note the it isn't just titled S&H but S&H with KEY to the Scriptures!!!! These are both our impartual pastors and are of equal importance.

S&H is used as an "idol' sometime when we are tricked into thinking we can be healed simply by the letter. It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth. And the S&H helps us get the spirit of the Bible. But the Bible should still be read!!!!
Please understand, that the S&H is part of the revelation of St. John, part of the Divine Science, the Comforter, and therefore is important. Don't go away thinking that when Christian Scientists read S&H they are worshiping it. It was the same thing with Mrs. Eddy. Yes, some people did look at her from a personal erroneous stand point but that was mixed in with others who had such a true reverance of whom they called Mother, the woman who faced down error in all its forms to found a religion to heal mankind! And people beleive that Mrs. Eddy was making herself and idol! This goes to show that animal magnatism is trying so hard to stop the power of the Truth in healing that it tries to find fault with anything we as CSists are shaky on.

Watch carefully, your own thought. Its important to cleanse one's thought of any error that would encourage dissent. We are all working out our own salvation. If you want to know, truly, how to worship God, rightly, no human can tell you, there is no formulas in CS. God will guide you. Perhaps it is that you should study the Bible intensely, but in contrast it could be the S&H that might be needed more study to uplift your thought when you go to read the Bible. Ah ha. There is the purpose of the S&H. It isn't to boss you around with how you should read the Bible. It is to get your thought in a state of harmony, so you can read the Bible and look for the spiritual!

Like it says in Revelations, the book first tastes lik honey, then is bitter in digestion. It is so because S&H makes you think and question things, and look into the Bible and see for yourself what is there for you.

I have read through Psalms, read the chapter of Job, looked through Isiah for prophecies about Jesus. I've read through Matthew and will be working on reading through the Gospels. And I'll tell you Jesus, was not meek and mild. On the contray he really rebuked every form of error. But I would never have understood that without the S&H supporting that Jesus healed the sick by rebuking error and seeing the real perfect man and then I would go back to the Bible and see that. I always liked to think of the Bible and S&H as a happy married couple. Both of equal importance, both complimenting each other and both having their own message for the world.

And I am, grateful you brought this up. I finish this with feeling humbled by an important reminder,and I am going to read the Bible. Thanks Brit.

[Cara Lange]

Just an added comment. I think we should have discussion, where we read like, say a chapter in Matthew or whatever, a. Maybe that would make it more of a common thing to do. Like you discuss how school is, and how your friends are and then you comment on the Bible. Really bringing God into your life. I just would like to recommend Matthew to anyone that feels that healing doesn't seem to be occuring. Talk about being baptized. Reading Jesus rebuking error and the devils leaves you afterwards in such a rush. I really felt all my matterial ideas being really questioned. Had I not viewed Jesus' healings with the importance that Mrs. Eddy stresses, I might not have gotten the same thing out of it.
More Fun!

[NottingHill]

There's some useful discussion here. I love the Bible Lesson and that's the primary way in which I study the Scriptures. Yet we need to read the Bible as a whole and appreciate each individual book as the inspired Word of God. Reading the Gospels through for the first time was a life-transforming experience for me. The key point is that we find inspiration in what we read - inspiration that transforms our thinking and changes our lives.

[EvanB]

Thanks Brittany for starting this important thread!

Let's begin with an enlightening quote from the Scriptures. Jesus said, "Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God" (Matt 22:29).

Mrs. Eddy echoes these words extensively, and directly quotes them several times in her writings, one of these echoes is, "our thoughts of the Bible utter our lives" (Message 1902 4:28). If we take a moment to pause and ponder the immensity of that statement, we may begin to grasp the importance Mrs. Eddy and Jesus attached to our knowing the Scriptures. And, if it's true, we really ought to know that Bible if we want our lives to be uttered!

Someone once put it this way to me (you've probably heard this before). Imagine that you were given your choice of the most fantastic automobile you could ever want. I love the environment so I'd choose a hybrid Toyota Prius, but in the body of a red hot Ferrari (I said imagine:p ). So I've got my awesome car, but what am I going to do with it if I don't have the key? Nothing! I could only look at it, admire it, maybe comb my hair in the side mirror, but I couldn't experience it, it wouldn't be useful to me--I couldn't get to work, couldn't make money to pay for the car...you get the picture, not pretty.

On the other hand, what if someone gave me a key and said that it went to a car. Would that key do any good to me if I never put it into the car and took it for a drive?

Obviously if we have a key and we have the coolest car ever, we have to put them together to get any real use out of them. One is nothing without the other. What would keep us from putting our key in the car and actually using them? Well, one thing I suppose is that if we didn't understand how cool our car really was. Maybe we've been fooled into thinking our car is a lemon (really crummy--hybrids have bad acceleration), we may not want to drive it because it's not cool. Do other people try to make you feel embarrassed sometimes when you tell them you read the Bible? Let's face it, aside from CS summer camps, the world doesn't view reading the Bible as "a cool way to spend your spare time." Some people are even intimidated by it.

Probably more than the uncool or intimidation factors (though that form of subtle mesmerism is not to be ignored), a valid answer might be, "I don't know how to drive." That's the equivalent to saying, "I can't understand the Bible; the language is too difficult." Well, learn already! If the people who understand it have healed cripples and raised people from the dead, and they tell us that if we understand it we'll be able to heal too--even do greater works than them (John 14:12)--what's keeping us from learning how to drive the most ultimately cool car ever built?!:cool:

Several of you have mentioned reading other translations as a way to get into the Bible--a way to learn how to drive if you will. I think that's a great idea! Mrs. Eddy had something like 80 different translations of the Bible, and she quotes several of them in Science and Health (even an Icelandic translation, pg. 525:12). Like my hybrid Ferrari, I would choose the KJV--and so did Mrs. Eddy--but that doesn't mean that we can't gain spiritual understanding from another translation. Ultimately even the KJV is a translation from the original Hebrew and Greek. Mrs. Eddy didn't miss that point in S&H,


"Acquaintance with the original texts, and willingness to give up human beliefs (established by hierarchies, and instigated sometimes by the worst passions of men), open the way for Christian Science to be understood, and make the Bible the chart of life, where the buoys and healing currents of Truth are pointed out" (24:4).

Okay so learning the original languages is pretty intense, but there are several free-ware computer programs out there that enable us to look up those original words in mere seconds (check out www.e-sword.net (http://www.e-sword.net/) I highly recommend it!), I don't even have to click, when I hover my mouse over the words, the Strong's Concordance definition pops up on my screen. What an invaluable tool!

Whenever I'm confused about a passage in the KJV, first I always pray, next I look in S&H (put in my Key), keep praying, then I look up the tricky words myself (it’s like driving a stick with God as my clutch). I personally like the process of discovering what the original words mean more than trusting another translator's opinion of the text. Notice how when talking about the "original texts" Mrs. Eddy mentions "human beliefs (established by hierarchies, and instigated sometimes by the worst passions of men)"? Not all translators are unbiased in their take on theological doctrine--though they may claim, and likely honestly try, to be. If you look really closely you might notice that many new translations omit verses--some of these are very important to Christian Scientists because they have to do with healing, and understanding Jesus' relation to the Christ. This is no conspiracy theory, it's the truth, look for yourself.

I must be clear that I'm not discouraging the use of new translations, I do however believe it’s important to know that translations are faulty by nature and there's a reason why Mrs. Eddy preferred the KJV for a majority of her quotations and our Weekly Bible Lesson Sermon--and why she suggested that we have an "acquaintance with the original texts." You know, many of the words in the Bible were chosen from lists of over 20 synonyms--how to choose? Well, with our knowledge of the Science of Christ, revealed to us through the Comforter, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, I'd rather be the one to choose the synonym thank you very much:D . I hope you will too!
BTW--you already know how to drive, if you reflect God, and She's better than Mario Andretti...Hooo-wee, look Mamma, no hands!;) God's speaking to you in the just way you need to hear it, whatever Bible you read.

[Cara Lange]

Zarach- Good ideas and points. I like the quote about the original text from MBE. and thanks also for that online resource you provided!

Sometimes, when I read the bible sections in the lesson I get ideas that I need to work on during the day. Like this weeks lesson on Soul and Body. I got a lot out of the text strength. My fav. is Isaiah 35 about the waters breaking out and being strong, because I am working on the suggestion of supposed flu symptums and the frustration that I have keep battling these. The idea of strength, of waters or the (channels of thought) coming in the desert ( i looked up some of these words in the glossary) and they totally fit!

I'm sorry I had to share it. I'm still working out this demonstration but nods to Brit again for bring up the importance of the Bible and renewing my study of it. (I'm actually temperary second reader for my church so I have to study the Bible!)

Also, if anyone can add any good thought to help my demonstration I will be 100,000 + times grateful!

[EvanB]

Hi Cara--I'm so glad that you checked out www.e-sword.net (http://www.e-sword.net/) ! It's really a sweet tool! (free is a very sweet price too:D ).

Here are a few thoughts I found from the Bible (staying on topic;) ) about this so-called "influenza." Perhaps you've already thought of it this way, but the name of that particular claim strips the mask right off of the error. It derived its name from the belief that "'There exists a mutual influence between the celestial bodies, the earth and animated things.'" (Science & Health pg. 100:8--Animal Magnetism Unmasked), or simply, the "influence of the stars" (Webster).

Wait a minute...who made the stars? God did! Could His stars harm us? Check out Genesis 1:16-19

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

So there is no such thing as any ill influence of the stars. God made them, and He made them good! He made you good too (Gen 1:26)! Plus the stars are in "heaven to give us light on earth." That sounds pretty good too!

And from Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, Mary Baker Eddy refers to "influence" as "the action of Soul" (S&H 89:22). Since Soul is God, and God is All--therefore all-acting--God is the only influence upon his children--There is only One Good influence and it's acting right now, embracing you, loving you!

[A.m.y]

I'm definitely more familiar with S&H than with the Bible, but I've been realizing that I need to change that recently. I have to say, though, that I've never been big on memorization from either book. I'm not bragging, just saying. ;)

[bronwen]

I recently finished reading the One Year Bible in the New International Version. I highly recommend picking up one of these Bibles if you want to get familiar with the Bible as a whole but don't know where to begin. It is laid out in daily readings from Old and New Testaments and Psalms and Proverbs, so you just read what is under each days heading. Anyway, if anyone in the Boston area would like to take this up I would be happy to give you my NIV One Year Bible. It doesn't work so well as an everyday Bible since it laid out in this unique way, and when I do it again I will try a new translation. Send me a private message and I will be happy to pass it along! it is a great experience!